Curse

generik · May 31, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

This is something that I always find puzzling, missions with objectives such as "Mhenlo must survive", "Master Togo must survive".

Let's put this in perspective.

In this game world people die all the time, but there is a magically thing known as a resurrection signet! Sure, rez skills usual state in their description that they are meant for fallen party members only, but since there is nothing special behind the concept of a "party" (strictly speaking they are just 7 other buffons you find in town, who are "friendly" to you), it should go on to follow that you can resurrect ANYONE who is "friendly" to you.

Heck, biologically there is no difference between a person who is "friendly" to you and "unfriendly" to you, so I don't see why you can't even rez a fallen ENEMY even!

So here comes the question, in spirit that people can actually be revived from deaths in this game, how then would keeping an NPC alive be a legitimate quest objective?

You died? No biggie! Someone else walking by will resurrect you!

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

To make the quests harder, obviously xD

Chicken Ftw · May 31, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Yeah... reminds me of a convo my team had... was on the way to some mission zone with Mhenlo, and this Kurzick NPC says "Mhenlo! We all thought you were dead!".. A guy in the team replied, "It's called a res sig, derr, silly Kurzick. No wonder the Luxons control Harvest Temple. You nubs don't res."

...K, so it was like 3 am, and funny then... <.<;

floppinghog · May 31, 2006, 03:55 AM // 03:55

probably cause we are choosen, and only we have the powers to res others, hence Mhenlo sucks~ =D

honestly i always got REALLY pissed at the end of a mission because of mhenlo dying on his own or togo or even rurik going leeroy into some charr gang like a moron. but then where would the challege be? you can always run away and come back to res people, npcs are part of the story, the mission, and the challenge so i guess that's why. its for the mission - the challenge has to be there

(why some missions don't require you to save some npc's i dont know, i guess they fall short of the main REAL objective - they expect you to do what your supposed to so they dont die)

EagleEye33 · May 31, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

To make the quests harder, obviously xD

Exactly, what this person said. It's to make things slightly harder. Also it is an "objective to protect", to make it seem like the story is "real" (if they died, the whole story would change) your not really suppose to die either, but they jump you so it happens. Heck you may not notice it but they help protect you and fight, so you can at least do the same :P

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

probably cause we are choosen, and only we have the powers to res others, hence Mhenlo sucks~ =D

Mhenlo is chosen also!

But then explain all the dredge and stone summit that can res... and Zaishens, and afflicted, and Shiro'ken, and Irukanji... I don't think they are all chosen too

EternalTempest · May 31, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

I've thought about this way back in C1 with the Ascalon guards...

Ahhh if this country only had the ability to use it's resources to raise monks, put them in the army... oh wait Im a monk that joined the army and can raise...

Do agree it's for the "quest" challenge but it's something I have to suspend my disbelief on.

VGJustice · May 31, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

I don't know about you guys, but I'm still wondering why they didn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aerith.

Same thing. It's for story. Mhenlo/Togo can't die, so now said quest/mission is harder.

Chicken Ftw · May 31, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

I don't know about you guys, but I'm still wondering why they didn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aerith.

Because Cloud's a cheapskate. Proof? http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=176

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by VGJustice

I don't know about you guys, but I'm still wondering why they didn't just use a Phoenix Down on Aerith.

Same thing. It's for story. Mhenlo/Togo can't die, so now said quest/mission is harder.

Because Sephiroth has:

Frozen Masamune of Defence

15-22 Slashing damage (give or take a few 9000) (req 15 Swordmanship)
+15% Damage
Slain foes cannot be ressurected
Armor +5
+20% Damage
Customized for Sephiroth

Think about it... did anyone actually killed by that thing come back?

Manic Smile · May 31, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I like how my henches can die 30+ literally and be rezed but the allie dies once and it's OMG!! NOZZZZe

Stabber · May 31, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

I love how one of the soon-to-be-henchies (Aurora? Daeman?) in Boreas Seabed says, "One of us will die here today and I am ready to die... of course I've died and been reborn many times." (paraphrase)

Shows the writers are self-aware enough that they can poke a little fun at their mothridden plot.

Infinity^ · May 31, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

*very-mild-spoiler-ish*

In Arbourstone, when you get trapped in the cathedral with Mhenlo on the other side (y'know, when your subjected to Danika's rubbish voice-acting).

"Tell you what Mhenlo, we'll all die and you can rebirth us out of here, then we'll stroll back to HzH. What, no? Ok, I've got rebirth, you die and you can come with us when I've rezzed you. Well why not? Where are you going? Come back! At least take this urn, i'll chuck it over these rocks. Hang about... I can climb over these... why did noone think of that..?"

Gonzo · May 31, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

So offtopic: thanks for the VG Cats link

Slow day at work.

Raziel665 · May 31, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Rule #153 from the grand list of Roleplaying Cliches:

"Mommy, why didn't they just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris?"
Don't expect battle mechanics to carry over into the "real world."

http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html

Sanji · May 31, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

The whole Aerith/Story Driven death thing more makes me think things like ressurection spells and items don't so much bring someone back to life, but bring them back from a critical condition.

Or at least have a window of opportunity in which they must be used or can be used when it comes to say, fated deaths. So they wouldn't work, say, when it is your time.

Because, y'know, nobody would die otherwise. At least nobody who could afford it.

Hanok Odbrook · May 31, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

This is something that I always find puzzling, missions with objectives such as "Mhenlo must survive", "Master Togo must survive".

Let's put this in perspective.

In this game world people die all the time, but there is a magically thing known as a resurrection signet! Sure, rez skills usual state in their description that they are meant for fallen party members only, but since there is nothing special behind the concept of a "party" (strictly speaking they are just 7 other buffons you find in town, who are "friendly" to you), it should go on to follow that you can resurrect ANYONE who is "friendly" to you.

Heck, biologically there is no difference between a person who is "friendly" to you and "unfriendly" to you, so I don't see why you can't even rez a fallen ENEMY even!

So here comes the question, in spirit that people can actually be revived from deaths in this game, how then would keeping an NPC alive be a legitimate quest objective?

You died? No biggie! Someone else walking by will resurrect you!

I always found this amusing (and aggravating) - You can rez your fallen teammates - but not their pets nor your allies even if theyd appear in the party window. The problem I have with "Keep such and such alive" is that in many quests and missions, some of the NPCs do not appear in your party window, so you can't even keep track of their status except through in the main window. This problem really became apparent to me when I took my characters through the second two Kryta missions (D'Alessio and the other one after Gates). In order to not only to complete the bonus, but to unlock the bonus to begin with, you have to save some NPCs. I had to repeat these missions at least a dozen times each before I completed the bonuses as a result of this (no one in my party died even once). To me, that doesn't make a mission challenging, only an aggravating waste of time.

In the one mission, I actually had to consult the guide book in order to find out who gave out the bonus (at least it was good for something) after my first few runs turned up nothing. Maybe it's me, but I find something wrong with having to consult an outside source in order to complete a task in a game. In the end, I don't have a problem with the task, but the base mechanic needs to be reworked - some quests and missions have your needed NPC in the party window, others do not. This needs to be reworked so that all necessary NPCs appear in your party window. GW has always claimed to be about lessening the grind - when I have to repeat a mission a dozen times to complete it (party deaths notwithstanding), then that tells me there is an update in order.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Fates · May 31, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Um, you guys are wrong. The reason is to stop people from running. It's that simple.

Young Hero · May 31, 2006, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

Um, you guys are wrong. The reason is to stop people from running. It's that simple.

Yep, and you can't solo "farm" a mission if you have to protect retards.

Fates · May 31, 2006, 07:06 PM // 19:06

...but A-net has nothing against runners. You just cant run anywhere in Cantha.